linkingup | NETWORK: @peach0341 (anonymous) [post soujuurou's wild ride]

NETWORK: @peach0341 (anonymous) [post soujuurou's wild ride]

What would you consider the most unforgivable thing that a person could do to you? Something that someone could do, that they could never take back?

If it has been done to you, what happened? How did you treat that person afterward, if you kept in contact with them? If you didn't, do you regret ever severing off from them?

Have you done anything unforgivable? How did people respond to that--did they let you get a word in edge-wise to explain, or did they abandon you? Did you have to find your own way afterwards? How did it go for you, if so?

Do you think there's anything that one can do to earn forgiveness, depending on the severity of what happened? Do they deserve it? Does it depend? And is there a certain point that someone's allowed to give up on trying to find it, and should just stop trying to be good?

I'm curious as to what everyone's answers will be. Please don't give anymore info than you're comfortable with; these are just things that have been on my mind, lately. And please don't be rude to each other.

[this seems. infinitely more like a stream of conscious than anything actually coherent, but there's at least an attempt at maintaining some modicum of privacy. have at. be it on main or giving yourself a nice plurk-style anon-name, go for it.]

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I've done something unforgivable. I betrayed somebody who trusted me wholly.

They responded by chasing me to the edge of the world for revenge, but in the end, they were still weeping for me.

I had never wanted their forgiveness until that moment. Yet, now I still think about the tantalizing fantasy of them giving it.

I see. That sounds like a very difficult situation that you were in. Earning someone's trust only to betray it...I can only scarcely imagine how either of you felt.

[Tears, maybe. Screaming arguments, perhaps. But--]

You wanted their forgiveness because they wept for you...

Why is that, if you don't mind me asking? Do you think they would have been ready to give it to you, in that moment, or is it something else?

"Don't say it. If you say what I think you're going to say, I might just forgive you," they said through tears. Even after it all, they were such a soft person. I could scarcely believe it.

I wanted to say it, then.

Because they were basically offering. Because they were precious to me in a way I could not have admitted before.

It was too late, but I'm doomed to muse on it now.

Edited 2024-09-12 06:17 (UTC)

Haha.
...I'm not laughing at you, I promise. But I can see it, in a strange way. Imagine the situation, even if I can't really feel things like that. Not very well, at least.

You really were so close to it in those final moments. It sounds strange. But did it offer you any peace, before you went and ended up here?

...If you had the chance to go back, would you have taken them up on it? Or done anything different?

It would have been too late either way, but I'd still have liked to say the words. I spent a lifetime willing myself to not even think them.

Knowing I could have said it does make me reflect on myself differently now. That's why Braphine took me when she did, I'd wager.

But I'd never have done anything differently. It would not have been in my nature.

I understand. We can't really beat our natures when it comes right down to it. Whatever it is, it'll define us for our lives, whether we want it to or not. So...I understand it. At least a little.

[...]

It's difficult, isn't it? Being made to live with your decisions and having the time to reflect upon them. I don't know how anyone does it.

It sounds like you were pretty good at knowing yourself, though. Would that be too presumptuous to say?

I spent a lot of time reflecting, at least.

Our past defines who we'll be in the future, and it becomes our weak spot no matter how hard we try to prevent it. Understanding as much can be a shield against manipulation, in my opinion.

And yet I was undone by feelings I kept suppressed, in the end.

You also seem self aware, or at least invested in thinking it through. Are you the unforgivable or the aggrieved, in these thoughts?

Edited 2024-09-12 06:45 (UTC)

that depends on what your definition of unforgivable is, i suppose.

i did, however, think very seriously about wiping out my city entirely.

the most irrational thing a person has ever said to me was that they could never forgive me, but they trusted me anyway.

even after i broke every ounce of their trust.

I don't disagree. We carry our past with us no matter what, it's true. Try as we might to discard it sometimes, to our benefit and not. Keeping ones feelings suppressed is usually the ultimate safety, though it can be a double edged sword, I've found.

And it will always find a way to haunt you, just as much as it can help inform you for the future.

...It sounds like a shame. For you, at least. Hopefully that reflection has helped you here.

[It almost seems like the anon isn't going to answer the second part of that, for a moment. But eventually, another part of the message comes.]

I figured it might be obvious, but I guess I was better at masking it than I thought. Unforgivable, in my case as well.

I'm leaving that definition to those who want to answer the question or not. I feel like I'll get more interesting answers that way, if I leave it open ended.

Wiping out a whole city, though...I'm curious. Was there a particular reason for it?

What is unforgivable to one may be a blessing to another. I cannot recall how many 'unforgivable' things have been done to me...

But one of those actions saved my life. I don't consider it an unforgivable act, but someone else I know had the same thing inflicted upon them and she would do anything to have it undone.

And as for another of those actions, I took a series of unforgivable actions myself to force the perpetrators to atone, without care for anyone else I hurt in the process, and I never put myself in a place to be confronted for those actions, nor would I expect forgiveness if I did. I didn't forgive, after all.

I still haven't.

The rest is dust.

Whether forgiveness or hate is deserved... depends. I will not pry as to what the action you are seeking forgiveness for is, if you do not wish to share it, as I am not the person you're seeking forgiveness from... And even they may not give it, even if you deserve it.

If you wish to try continuing to be good, that's reason enough, no matter what is in the past. If you need to move forward and start over, so be it.

Are you seeking opinions, or anecdotes? Because, truthfully, the severity of such things are always dependent on the person who has been wronged, and even then, they have to decide if there was any wrongdoing to forgive.

For example, you have a dear friend who remembers next to nothing of your childhood together, of growing up under people who demanded the very best out of you or else you would be discarded, a real threat. As adults, your dear friend is aware that something happened to both of you as children, but not the specifics, and seeks the answers to all their questions by retracing both your steps, ending up in mortal danger a number of times due to the path they have been following. On the other hand, you have all of your memories, but you hold your tongue because you know that if you tell them, they would chase your shared past and likely end up stirring up a horror that neither of you are capable of dealing with. Thus, you watch them hurt themselves while you hold revelations but more suffering in your hands.

Like this little story, the answers to your questions have far more nuance than you may be seeking. One of the best answers I can give, truly, is to "be in that situation, and decide the answer for yourself in that exact moment".

i wonder that myself, considering that by the textbook definition of the word, killing someone you've never met before shouldn't be forgivable, right? but he forgave me anyway.

humans are such irrational creatures sometimes, aren't they?

it was... rotten. corrupted. shallow. unchanging. selfish. the starting point of something festering that was threatening to spread to other undergrounds. i gave them thirty days to change. whether to change for the better or for the worse, i didn't care, i didn't think that they would be able to change at all.

i didn't think that it was worth saving.

...Interesting.

Please don't misunderstand; I'm mostly asking this for the sake of learning the perspective of others. It's something I really don't understand. The work I did, it's ensured that I really can't feel anything. Or at the very least there feels like there's a gap, because I'm so used to faking things.

At any rate, it sounds like you've lived a long life of doing and receiving those actions and accepted them. I take it you wouldn't change anything you did, considering it saved your life and got your revenge on someone?

[There's a pause, between that going out and the next bit.]

I don't know. I think that all that being good has done has managed to screw me up irreparably. I spent my whole life chasing it, because I couldn't understand the world around me and why I got left behind by almost everyone. I spent a long time trying to be 'good', putting my effort towards it, and in the end I hurt a lot of people to try and find someone who might care.

If I had to seek forgiveness from the people I hurt, I'd be looking at seeking the forgiveness of at least forty people, at minimum. At maximum, well over one hundred million of them.

I don't think one moves forward from that.

Both are fine. Whatever anyone is comfortable giving me, I'll take. I want to understand everything better. And that means getting the perspective of others around me, right? Even if I can't understand them.

What you're talking about sounds similar to a place I went into, thinking that it would be an escape into a better life. It wasn't, but it wasn't nearly as...well, dire of a situation as what happened with you and your friend. It sounds like ignorance was truly bliss for them, up until they tried to find out what actually happened.

I'm not going to pass judgement either way, but shielding your friend from that, or at least trying to...I think that would be considered a kind thing. Maybe. I can't say I know very well. I take it you don't know of a way to convince them to stop hurting themself in pursuit of this, or have tried. I won't pry, but...it's a curious situation.

I appreciate it, though. I don't think I can trust my own judgement in these kinds of situations, though. It's never gone well. But I appreciate your perspective.

Edited (nouns whoops) 2024-09-12 15:41 (UTC)

...Either that person is very odd and just forgiving in general, or they might have been hoping you'd let your guard down enough to get one last shot at vengeance. I'm not going to assume overmuch.

But I'm not going to disagree with you on that. We tend to be. It's why I can't really understand them either.

[The second part of that gets some contemplation from Sayaka, pausing a bit as she considers everything. There's a part of her that doesn't like that, forcing people to change or die, but if those people really deserved it...

(And boy, do people as a whole deserve it. Every selfish person, every idiot who's belittled her dream and the sacrifices that she made to obtain it, everyone who demanded these sacrifices of her, everyone who left her behind to learn how to be a human being from television alone--all of them, all of them deserve to be hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt like she has and finally understand, and if they can't, they can--)]

It sounds like you got thrown into hell itself. If they wouldn't change without a significant amount forcing their hand, they got too comfortable with their rotten lives. I'm not going to act like what you did was good, granted, but let's just say I can sort of get it. People as a whole are kind of terrible like that.

Can I ask what happened, at the end?

heehee, you're quite right in one aspect. he's a curious one, my partner. i gave him a chance to shoot me in cold blood because he had every reason to, and he couldn't bring himself to do it. the simple pull of a trigger to end it all, and he was too conflicted to do the logical thing to seek revenge.

irrationality. such a strange thing to fall to, in the end.

[ joshua sounding fond over neku? wow. what is this character development. ]

on the contrary, my dear peach, my city wasn't hell - it was wonderful. it was beautiful, brilliant, thriving, and that's why i could see the rot slowly consuming it from the inside out despite my attempts at caring for it and building it. i loved it too much, i fear. even if i had to doom it with my own two hands.

[ ... people are kind of terrible like that, is what he used to think. still does, mostly, although-- ]

that's the thing about people, though, isn't it? everyone has their own little internal world - a secret garden that only they can enter. each world follows its own internal logic - a little bit like the palaces we've come across, no? the logic of one world means nothing in another, which means it's impossible to really know someone.

my opponent in the game thought the best of the city, believing that it could rise above its corruption and filth. i didn't think so, so i gave him thirty days to prove me wrong.

in the end? are you asking for spoilers, darling? what do you think happened in the end~ do you think i ended up destroying the city? or did i stay my hand?

Edited 2024-09-12 16:23 (UTC)

Shortly before I arrived here, I was among people who were demanded to do something unforgivable. One person did it, and we all had to figure out how and why. In the end, what mattered to us was the motivation behind it. The punishment for it was execution, and so that happened.

Some held a grudge against her, but the majority were willing to give the benefit of doubt and believe in her kindness and her sincere wish for everyone else's wellbeing.

Not long afterwards, I myself committed the same action. It was a painful decision that tears me apart, especially because of the consequences it could bring to people I cared about, yet to this day I stand I took the right decision, even though was, by definition, a betrayal of everyone's trust. I got caught for it, and underwent the same fate of execution.

Frankly, I am very bitter about it. I do not blame they had to do it, but I feel spite regardless. Obviously, I did not want to die, and I did all in my power to attempt to prevent it, even if it meant at least one person dying on my place.

And yet, despite it all, I know more people than I thought were willing to look past what I did and not wish for my death. I heard them rooting for my escape. Even though I betrayed them, they were willing to not subject me to such a fate. While it did not work, there's only one conclusion:

The unforgivable cannot be forgiven, but it can be understood. Explanations are the first step. And while not everyone will accept them, or sympathize with the reasons, there are some who will. Take solace on that.

Edited 2024-09-12 16:42 (UTC)

Taking a life is a rather serious thing, you know. For humans, at least. I don't know if that was why he could have, but...your partner sounds like an interesting person, at least. You sound very fond of him.

[...Sayaka shouldn't be thinking this sounds like a particularly messy couple breakup, but wow. It sure sounds like it. Only thing they're missing is a callout video--

But even still, Sayaka listens.]

Ahhhh. So it was because of the fact that the city held such beauty that you wanted it's people destroyed. Or something like that, maybe? I'm not going to claim to really understand it, but wanting to preserve something like that is understandable. Loving something to the extent that you can't stand to see anyone hurt it.

[Sayaka isn't sure how to respond to the rest. The secret garden comment feels...it's not something she understands. She's so used to sanding herself down and keeping any intrusive, terrible thoughts under the floorboards of her mind. Her secret garden was practically a public one by force, to be ripped of the unsightly things so that way people only see the beauty. The cuteness of their favorite idol, their pure and perfect example who couldn't hide anything.]

...I can't say I understand that, but I think I get it in theory. But your friend sounds like the optimistic type. The kind that wants to see the best in everything.

But, ah. I'm not asking for spoilers if you don't want to give them. But if I have to take a guess...given that he didn't kill you, maybe you ended up killing him?

But I don't think that you destroyed the city. Because of what he was unable to do. That's what I think.

i don't know. before i came here i'd probably say something like "killed my friends" but after seeing some of the crap people here went through, there's probably even worse things i can't even imagine.

i think

all you can really do is apologize and try to be better. but no one has to accept your apology and like i said everyone here has gone through way more than me.

[#NormieProblems.]

[...

Something about the circumstances that Coconut describes gives Sayaka pause. Sayaka was never around long enough to watch anyone but herself kill. She was the one who struck first, for the sake of her friends (were they really her friends? or were they the only people she could stand because--), but she never saw the aftermath. The only thing she was able to do was to try and make sure that Kuwata couldn't get the motive himself, that he'd fail, that Naegi wouldn't be hurt and that Kuwata would fail--

(But what was it that motivated her in the end? The need to save someone she barely knew, or the spite of not wanting Kuwata to get something she couldn't have? Which is it? Which is it, truly? Sayaka doesn't know and it's--)

It takes a bit for Sayaka to respond to all of that. It's like seeing the witch and the wolf again--the mastermind and the puppet. Sayaka almost doesn't want to respond to this, because of the avenues it opens up in her head. If they had to find out who did it and why, and the punishment was execution--what happened? What happened if Naegi found her lifeless body? Was the clue she even left behind worth it? Would they even understand? Kuwata was so distracted that she only barely got it out with the last of her strength, but what would have happened to him? Even if she hated him for thinking her dream so simple to attain, even if his flirtations were disgusting to her, even if she wanted him to think with his brain rather than something unfavorable...

Did...did she hurt everyone even worse than she could have imagined?]

...What you went through sounds very similar to the circumstances I was in before I came here.

[Sayaka tries not to dwell on it too much. She can stuff it down. She can process it later.

(Why, why, why--)]

It sounds like a complicated circumstance. Commit a grave action, or have one committed against you, and having to find out why they did it...it sounds like a lot of pressure. And it sounds like you knew very well what the consequences were for your actions, after watching the first.

...I don't think that solace deserves to be given for something terrible. People are meant to live with those kinds of actions for the rest of their lives. I don't understand that. I don't understand providing understanding to stuff like that, either. When you do something terrible, you receive judgement for it. And that judgement can be anything from unpersoning, to groveling until you've found an apology that everyone will be satisfied with. And sometimes you don't. Sometimes people think you deserve worse, and are willing to enact it.

[Stalkers. The idols who've dated other men and been made to grovel and do anything to gain the forgiveness of others. Any number of things.]

I imagine you've left out a lot for your own privacy, Coconut, so please understand that I'm not trying to pass judgement on you one way or another. Your circumstances are your own, and I won't disrespect you by doing that.

...I appreciate your perspective, but I don't think that's how most of the world works. I am glad that if nothing else, there were people rooting for you. You must have done a bad thing for a very good reason.

[Anon or not, there are like three other people here who might recognize the content of this post since he's not going to be 100% vague.]

I don't know if I've got any good answers for you on deserving forgiveness because I'm still trying to figure out my own feelings on that. But I guess I can talk about my own experiences. Maybe it'll be cathartic. IDK.

I only had one parent growing up and he was barely around because he was too into his work to raise me. I had to learn how to do everything on my own. Cooking, cleaning, school, you name it. There was one point that he actually lived with me but I was stupid to think it would last. I resented him and the subject of his work a lot. I still do, I think. Maybe not the work subject as much anymore, but I still can't understand why he abandoned me even when he said he loved me. How could he love me when he would rather kill anyone in his way INCLUDING ME than let his stupid dream be ruined?

I'll never get the chance to figure it out with him because he's gone now.

[...Sayaka is going to be perfectly respectful of everyone's trauma here and not call Banana's chump change or anything, that's rude--]

We all have different...what's the word, barometers? For things like that. What's the worst for you is different for someone else. I'm not going to inquire about what happened if you don't want to go into it.

I think I get what you mean, though. It really is always left to the judgement of others, though based on some of the answers I've seen, I think some people might be a little too forgiving for their own good.

But you are right, Banana. I can agree with that. I can't say I know what better looks like, but I think that is a good way of looking at it.

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NETWORK: @peach0341 (anonymous) [post soujuurou's wild ride]

@chocolate1836

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@star104 (anonymous)

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@bento2832

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cw: neglect

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cw: neglect, mild violent fantasy??? i'm so sorry

don't be, that's like par for the course in danganronpa,

@coconut4861

you know what absolutely fair

@banana9881

1/2 (cw: typical dangan ronpa shit, something akin to a mini mental breakdown)

2/2 (cw: idol industry fuckery)

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